A quick survey of any group of women will give you a huge variety of opinions on this issue. Generally women with traditional values who are close to their parents will be happy if their boyfriends talk to their dads before proposing, whereas staunchly independent women will be furious that their family knew about the engagement before them.

Sadly it’s not always this clear cut, and it can be hard to know what your girlfriend thinks, so here are three tips on discovering her views:

• Bring up the subject in a way that doesn’t relate to you. Either mention a friend who can’t decide whether to ask the father or not and seek her advice, or rent a movie where the father is asked for permission, and say what you think about it; you’re sure to get a reaction.
• If you’re close to one of your girlfriend’s mates and you trust her not to blab, ask her whether she thinks it’s a good idea. This is the sort if things girls talk about so if she doesn’t already know she can probably find out more subtly than you can.
• Think about her relationship with her father. If they are a close knit family and she talks to her father often on the phone, asking his permission is probably a good idea. If her parents are divorced, she hardly sees her father, and she has a step mother she can’t stand, it’s probably best to skip right to the proposal.

You might be surprised to discover that the engagement conversation can be just as nerve racking and uncomfortable for the father-of-the-bride as for the would-be groom. In the past a father’s role as protector and provider for his daughter was well established, but in modern society, where women seek independence from an early age, it can be difficult for fathers to know how to behave in this situation.

Here are some things to consider about your girlfriends father:

• Are his values traditional or modern? If he is still very much the head of the household then it is a good idea to ask his permission. If he’s a modern man that does most of the housework while his wife pursues her high flying career, asking permission may not be so necessary, and if you do his response may be “you’ll have to ask her”.
• Does he treat you formally? If your girlfriend’s father still insists on you calling him Mr. Roberts, and you aren’t allowed to so much as hold hands with her in his presence, you should definitely ask for his permission. If he’s already given you a big hug and asked you to call him Dad the conversation may not be necessary, but he would probably like it if you asked anyway.
• Did he ask his wife’s father? So this might not be the easiest thing for you to find out without alerting your girlfriend suspicions that a proposal is on the way, but you could always take your girlfriend’s mother into your confidence and ask her. Mums are generally so excited about the idea of being the mother-of-the-bride they’ll be willing to tell you anything.
• Is he able to contribute to the wedding? Just because your girlfriend’s dad isn’t able to pay for the wedding it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t ask his permission, you just have to be careful how you do it. By seeking their permission, many fathers might assume you are asking them to pay for the big day, so if you suspect your father-in-law can’t contribute, make sure you already know how you are going to finance the wedding before you talk to him.

Before you decide whether or not to talk to your future father-in-law about the engagement, it’s a good idea to ask yourself why you are doing it. Here are two great reasons to ask the father, and two reasons to think twice about it:

You should ask if:

• You want to show your respect and earn his in return. Assuming the wedding goes ahead, it will be vital that you have a good relationship with your father-in-law. Misunderstandings, underlying tensions, and family feuds will take their toll on any marriage, and plucking up the courage to ask your father-in-law for permission to marry his daughter should get your relationship off to a good start.
• You want to do things properly for your girlfriend and ensure that the proposal, the engagement and the wedding is a special time for her that goes without a hitch.

You shouldn’t ask if:

• You just feel you have to. It will be obvious to the father-of-the-bride if your heart’s not in the question and you aren’t sincere in wanting his support for the engagement. If you’re only asking for the sake of it then everybody will be better off if you don’t bother.
• You know he will say yes. There are never any guarantees that your girlfriend’s father will agree to your engagement. You may have totally misread his take on your relationship, or he may not have realized you were so serious about his daughter. Appearing over cocky and self assured is likely to annoy any prospective father-in-law, so always bear in mind that he could say no.